[rt-devel] RT 2.1.12-Win32 beta distribution

Steve Radich stever at bitshop.com
Thu May 23 22:28:53 EDT 2002

I think we're starting to get off topic from rt development and more into
Microsoft "how windows web stuff works". I could spend a month talking about
this, and have spent years talking about it (hence the IIS/ASP M.V.P. that I
got from them for doing just that). There's better things in life than
explaining their technical strategy when their lawyers ruin it anyway. 

But.. for how windows web apps work..

Remember on the windows platform Microsoft pushes you to use ODBC (or
ADO.Net on asp.net).

ODBC you just set a system DSN name (i.e. "rt") - the odbc settings take
care of login, password, and what kind of db it is (Access, Foxpro, SQL
Server, Oracle).  Oracle drivers are always buggy (funny isn't it? Sell a
competing product and their drivers for Oracle always are buggy.. hmmm..)

The point of ODBC is to make your application transparent to what database.

But if it's ported to use ODBC on windows then IN THEORY it can use any
windows based database (including dozens more than those mentioned above).

If you watch their strategy it's been to push this as a feature for a long
time; although granted, it's slightly slower than native drivers for each
db.  If you watch carefully, they are starting to back up and say use native
SQL Server drivers for speed..  Why?  I feel because mysql and other dbs
meet many clients needs, and their licensing model is getting too
aggressive.. So now they want it to be work to move to a new db from theirs.

I can't say I've dug into the rt code to see how on *nix the database is
talked to, but porting the actual "open connection" "read next record" "run
this select statement", etc. to ODBC would result in most any windows
database being supported.

The Microsoft grand scheme of a plan is you can start with Access (so joe
average user can design a database that will never scale nor work and cause
anyone in IT headaches).  Joe average users database grows and can be moved
to another db format (name escapes me right this second).   This format is
basically sql server file format...  Then IT can get this db, open it in
Access 2000 / XP and go to tools - Upsizing wizard. This will convert the db
to SQL Server and (assuming an access app) make everything completely
seamlessly move to SQL Server database back end.  Then IT can work on
indices, etc. (Access supports indices, etc. but not very well).

Assuming your web app uses ODBC it can easily point the ODBC DSN to Access
until their db grows, then MSDE (under a zillion licensing restrictions),
then SQL Server after they upgrade to a real version.  Or SQL Server
Enterprise Edition..  Or Oracle..

The point is the EXACT same web scripts work on ANY odbc compliant database.

Some of their ideas of how to make things like this scalable easily with no
code changes are VERY good.  Their implementations sometimes lack, and for
about the last 1-2 years their implementations are getting worse, as linux
continues to get better.

Steve Radich - Microsoft IIS/ASP M.V.P.
BitShop, Inc. - http://www.bitshop.com - $149/month colo special

-----Original Message-----
From: seph [mailto:seph at commerceflow.com] 
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 8:31 PM
To: Steve Radich
Cc: rt-devel at lists.fsck.com
Subject: Re: [rt-devel] RT 2.1.12-Win32 beta distribution

> The package needs to use IIS to be accepted IMHO, and the database should
> moved to Microsoft Access (the db is free, the UI isn't. It's good for
> smaller stuff and could probably handle rt just fine). Alternatively MSDE
> (Microsoft SQL Server, full blown, limited to a few simultaneous queries
> before it starts slowing down so you don't use it for real tasks) could be
> used. 


> The average windows admin simply won't accept anything but Microsoft
> databases, regardless of their ability to perform the job.

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